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Sherlock BBC Prompting Meme

"we get all sorts around here."


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[temp] Discussion Post
Giggles at the Palace
sherlockbbc_fic
 Alright, so your head honchos haven't really decided yet whether or not a discussion post would be beneficial to have. HOWEVER, I'm putting this up in regards to an incident that would really benefit from a move, and I don't want to wait for all of us to make an educated decision.

This is a temporary discussion post--feel free to use it as you will, but the main reason its here so early and without much planning is to clean up a discussion taking place on the meme.

Thanks!
Pie

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May I ask what discussion? I haven't seen anything...

It'd be great if the prompt the thread is under could be re-posted! That prompt isn't the issue at all, and it's a brilliant prompt that doesn't deserve the conversation it's generated.

(I'll weigh in on the actual issues involved once I've had some sleep, but I just feel really bad for the OP!)

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i think the issue ought to be discussed and not brushed under the carpet because it can help us come up with rules on how prompts should be phrased and still keep this a safe space for all kinks.

since it's a topic that was generated on this very comm, i don't see why the discussion shouldn't take place here. [i do agree that the actual kinkmeme post wasn't the right place for it. freezing those threads and opening this one instead was the right move imo].

I agree: rules are needed.
Hovewer, I am not sure if this is the right way to make them °-°

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I think the best thing would be making rules about how to post prompts (maybe in a way that the more "offensive" are hidden -whyte over whyte pheraps?-)^^

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I agree with most of the people here, that topics must be discussed, not avoided.

Just a little general note from me, though: make the posts anon-free, because anon discussion *always* degenerates and never resolves anything. In the end everyone gets hurt and no-one learns anything from it, I'd say most times things even get worst than how they began.

Just my opinion though, because I don't participate in discussions where people can comment anon.

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First: I choose to be anon here because I have my own failings about self esteem and when I post a "kinky" prompt, I am a bit uncomfortable admitting I want said prompt.

I also am posting anon in this discussion not because of my lack of self esteem, but because I know of several people here...who know me....and right now I don't want those people--readers, friends the like--to know about an incident that occurred. May I one day admit it to my reading "public" perhaps--perhaps not.

When I was 16, I was brutally raped by my next door neighbor. As a result of the beating I am now wheelchair bound.

That rape changed me. Obviously.
However, I am not someone(which is why I am anon here) who chooses to discuss it openly. While the rape did change me, it did not make me. Yes, I am now wheelchair bound. But that doesn't make me.
I am not someone who shouts at the roof-tops "I was raped" I know many that do.

I was not upset by the post that led to this thread. But thats me I am not "triggered" by reading a prompt. Or watching a movie.
Once again that is me. I know of many others who can be easily upset by images, movies or descriptions of rape.

This meme should be a place we as a readership feel "safe" for two reasons:
1) the ability to prompt what we want without feeling we are being judged.
2) the ability to prompt as an "anon." As I said earlier, and as is shown in my status here, having "anon" gives us that freedom to prompt without feeling "ugh...I can never admit I want people to know I like this kink"

Going over every prompt, deciding what is "appropriate" is going to destroy what the purpose of a meme is for. That feeling of "safety" to prompt our deepest kinks.

Personally, I don't believe that we can really moderate the prompts. Because then everyone will be second guessing themselves "gee...I really want a prompt where Mrs.hudson steals the skull because she is ahem attracted to it and it turns her on while she is in bed....you know....but will this make someone trigger? Hmmm."

Finding humor in rape is odd. It is offensive to many. It is offensive to me. But, one man's offense is another man's kink.

I believe we are all intelligent people. I believe that the prompts should not be moderated.

But I believe that basic....true basic...."sensitivity" is needed in some areas.
Rape...makes sense to be sensitive.
Sexual assault.
Incest.

I think, perhaps, the best way to avoid these type of prompts, this type of anger and upset...is to make it that prompts...that could be read with a "trigger" should be labeled as such. "Warning possible trigger" "Warning rape prompt" "warning incest prompt"

I am surprised that someone took rape so lightly. But, sadly that is how some people are.
But the entire community should not be punished for one's act.

Perhaps a "rule" such as "Please be aware that subjects such as rape, sexual assault, incest and the like may be triggers for others. Treat them with some decorum, and label all prompts with this subject as such...."
should be posted. Otherwise, this should be a place where we are all free to prompt what we want, as we want....to make our kinky(and not so kinky) little minds happy.

I like the idea of a trigger warning being posted on prompts.

I do have to say, I don't think it's too much to have a system in place to have users point out to a mod if they think a prompt is especially badly phrased in regards to offensiveness, though. After all, if the meme didn't need moderating, why would it have a mod? I don't think having a mod simply make a judgement call on a few things would be as bad a thing as you suggest.

I mean, I'm not saying 'every time someone is upset, ban the prompter!'. But if a lot of people say 'hey, this offended me, I think this is wrong' then perhaps asking the prompter if they'd like to re-post with a better phrased prompt isn't out of line IMO.

(I do think finding humour in rape really does go beyond kink, though, because it goes outside of fictional boundaries in a way rape fantasies don't tend to.)

And that way, every prompt wouldn't need going over; I've modded a kink meme before, and in my experience, community efforts work very well.

I definitely agree the entire community shouldn't suffer for one person's thoughtlessness!

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I'm thinking of moving on if these discussions are not treated as trolling. The trolls may be right. That rape should be treated seriously and I agree that it should be but that's not a discussion for a kink and prompting meme. Let that happen elsewhere. These discussions never go anywhere.

Anon 1 - Rape (insert incest, whatever controversial topic) fanfic is bad. It treats rape lightly.
Anon 2 - Well I have a rape kink
Anon 1 - Shares personal experience with rape
Anon 3 - Well ok but I was raped too and I have a rape kink
Anon 4 - Meta about rape culture and how having a rape kink means you're a part of it

And it just goes on and on and never goes anywhere.

The discussions should be either deleted or discouraged. If prompts are moderated and I language policed I will leave or join another kink meme that doesn't police its users. Another anon was talking about it and I would be happy to mod if it came to that.

How this discussion started was not the prompt itself, but the phrasing, and whether that could be warned for better/phrased better.

The problem was not that there was a rape prompt. We don't intend to police for content of prompt, merely possibly to encourage people to be respectful with their phrasing of such prompts (like warning for them).

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I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO PUT THIS

What's this whole "Gottle o'gear" thing? I don't understand. Someone please explain it. WHY DID HE SAY IT OVER AND OVER? IS IT A TEASE OR A MEAN THING TO SAY?! I'm confused.

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One thing I'd like to add to this conversation:

Many people here seem to be working under the impression that to impose limitations on anyone is somehow 'unfair' and 'policing' and 'wrong' and such. But guys, I'd just like to point out: this is a privately run community on livejournal. There were certainly never any promises made you'd be allowed absolute free reign. If that worries you, by all means, leave. But there's a reason this community has an active and lovely mod, I'm sure, and please bear in mind it isn't censorship if they perform modly duties, you're not being oppressed; it's no different than if a thread containing a personal attack was removed, or deemed inappropriate, IMO.

I say this as someone who has moderated a kink meme before: that involves actual modding, people. As in, no, you don't have the 'right' to say whatever you want wherever you want if you weren't promised this in the first place.

Yep mods can do that if they want but I would create a new community like they did with the SGA kink meme when the mod decided chubby chasing was just too offensive. Mods can do what they want of course. No one has rights but I can also create an open environment where people feel like they can prompt their kinks without being dogpiled and I will if they start doing what you are suggesting and they start deleting prompts.

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I'm on like a gazillion really strong pain killers right now and can't think properly to type out a proper response, but can I ask if we are at least all agreed that a rape prompt and a consensual sex prompt shouldn't be lumped together even if they share the common theme of Sherlock crossdressing to solve a case?

Because I really hope we are. This is a kink meme, of COURSE rape prompts should be allowed (although preferably worded somewhat carefully). But we're all here to read what we want to read, and I want to read Sherlock dressing up as a girl and then having sex with John, not Sherlock dressing up as a girl and then being raped for it.

Can I ask if we are at least all agreed that a rape prompt and a consensual sex prompt shouldn't be lumped together even if they share the common theme of Sherlock crossdressing to solve a case?

Yes. That is absolutely true, and we do apologise. It was based on a misremembering of the original prompt, and shouldn't have happened. Sorry.

Here's a link to the actual apology. Link.

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After reading the discussions I would say yes to trigger warnings. No to allowing discussion on prompts that are not about the prompt or story. Obvious trollbaiting should definitely be frozen. I think you did a good job of handling the initial trolling, mods. Thanks for allowing us to have this discussion outside of the story post and not cluttering up the story post with it. :D

Fandom is something you opt in and opt out of, not something ANYONE forces you to be part of or belong to. Hence, if you find something offensive, you can and should leave. I don't see why it has to be a huge wank over what's PC and what's not on something as INTRINSICALLY UN-PC as a kink meme.

IAWTC. The original post that prompted this was not even a rape joke like they were saying repeatedly too bad I actually know how to read. So if they got offended by that...

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Thanks for creating a mod question post! That's very helpful.

Now about this discussion...My only concern is that discussions will supplant the fic prompting. I think discussion should be kept to a minimum in the prompting area. I don't mind if people go off on small tangents related to the fic but other than that I hope we can stay focused on the prompts. That's all I wanted to say about the recent kerfluffle.

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Re: MOD!NOTE

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Just for a little clarification: if I were to, say, bring up in a PM that the way a certain prompt was phrased was disturbing me (like, IDK, using the word 'bitch' for a female character while discussing 'punishing' them for their behaviour, totally hypothetical here)... would any specific action be taken (e.g. a modnote in the thread or something), or would simply raising the issue with you/others be the limit of what I should expect?

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